Over on the email front, a thread started about ECTA, East Coast Timing Association. They have a few events in NC starting in April next year, and I decided to start this thread to continue the topic. All east coast guys, this is an interesting event that we should really consider supporting since racing venues are hard to come bay anymore.
First things first - Who wants to attend one of these events and when? I definately plan to attend one, but I want to do it as a team, and with enough people, we might be able to get them to waive that roll bar rule for our cars. Post if you want to go and when.
The issue we are working out right now is tech requirements. A few of us has ordered rule books, so we'll know details soon, but in the mean time, there are some rules we need to convince them to change. In particular, anything over 125mph requires a roll bar. This may be prudent for some vehicles, but for Corvettes, our B-pillars should be more than adequate. We need to convince ECTA to waive this rule for Corvettes at the least. This will seriously open them up for alot of participants since they wouldn't have to add that kind of mod to run.
JR you talked about the B-pillar on the email front, what info did you use to show the ORR guys that we don't need a roll bar for high speed? I'd like to present this to ECTA and get them to change that rule for the Corvettes. Perhaps GM can provide me with literature that shows the B-pillar is in fact a roll bar in itself and is strong enough for this event.
BTW, we already know that beyond 125mph, ECTA requires a roll bar. Now at 175mph, you need a roll cage, fire system, parachute and other gear. I can probably understand the parachute given the distance to slow down isn't much, and hopefully the fire system consists of nothing more than a fire extinguisher, who knows. I think for the first event, I'll live with staying under 175 if we can run without that 4-point roll bar, which I think with alittle persuation, we can change.
Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 5,232teamzr1 Owner - Pays the bills
teamzr1 Owner - Pays the bills Lives in Engine Bay
Joined: Dec 2000
Contact GM and get the restoration package, it still may be free as when I got mine. Any new car has to get tested and nameplate has to supply the feds with all the specs which is in the "manufacturers Motor Vehicle Specifications" also called MVMA Specs.
Keep in mind you only have 1 mile from a standing start which is harder to get the speed you think the car can do.
Originally posted by teamzr1: Keep in mind you only have 1 mile from a standing start which is harder to get the speed you think the car can do.
I honestly have no idea how fast I can get my ZR1 up to in 1 mile, I'll have to test that come spring time, or do alittle math to get an estimate. Until then, I figure we should get the most out of the rules as possible.
Jason, I think that it is gonna be harder to hit 175 in one mile than you think. The C/GT record (land-speed equipped) is 150-something... But that is pretty lame. My best speed at El Mirage this year was 201 mph in 1.3 miles, so in it's current form, prolly won't hit 200 on concrete....Main reason is like you, I am running a ZF 6-speed. Too much rpm drop from 4th to 5th. You can make up the time if you have the distance (like at Bonneville) But even with my HP, the last 14 seconds of one of my El Mirage runs gets me only 900 more RPM. I changed my rear gears from 3.42 to 3.73, but the meet got rained out before I could determine the gain. My computer program predicts another 5 mph. I used to tune my ORR car (Accel computer - tune with a lap-top)....find a lonely stretch of road, mark off a mile, and see for yourself Ed
Ok fellas, looks like we have a foot in the door here, so all you guys interested in getting this requirement waived, lets get to it and get some hard evidence that proves our B-pillars will do the job as a roll bar for us.
Jason '91ZR1 05-451
Jason Mitchell <email@example.com> wrote: Hi Keith, good to hear back from you so soon...
The B-pillar is standard on all C4s and C5s with the exception of the convertibles and FRCs. I will get with Team ZR1, gather some information to prove this and get it to you ASAP. Not sure if I can get a hold of engineering documents, but I'm sure there are some statistics or safety tests/standards that explain how the B-pillar serves as a roll bar, and we'll get what we can on that.
We understand completely the ripple effect of changing the rules for one car, but I can assure you for the corvette the change is legitimate and reasonable, and will be supported by our proof that the B-pillar is attached to the frame. As for all the other cars, including corvette convertibles and FRCs, we understand that a roll bar is required, and don't expect you to waive the requirement for those cars.
Thanks for your time Keith, and I'll get back to you shortly.
V/R, Jason '91ZR1 05-451
Keith Turk <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: Jason is that standard on ALL Corvettes or just the ZR1? Does GM have any roll over testing to verify it? Can we get some engineering documents or some analysis to testify to it's integrity...
The deal is if we change our rules to make the Corvette legal then we're open to have to change the rules for all cars.... and frankly it's simply not safe to run a car without a roll bar... of course the real problem is the Convertibles.... we simply can't do that... Our insurance won't allow it.
By the way I own a Corvette.... and would love to see you guys there...
Keith ----- Original Message ----- From: Jason Mitchell To: email@example.com ; firstname.lastname@example.org ; email@example.com Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 1:25 AM Subject: ECTA Tech - Corvettes
Keith and Joe,
Hello again... you both received emails from me not long ago regarding involvement in the ECTA events this upcoming year. You may have also received some emails from some other folks that are involved in Team ZR1, a nationwide Corvette Club. I am also a member of Team ZR1, as is Ed Van Scoy, which is how I got to know him.
An issue some of the other Team ZR1 members, and myself, are having is with the rule governing the roll bar requirement for vehicles exceeding 125mph. Team ZR1 is requesting that requirement be waived to a higher speed for the Corvettes. We talked about this issue among ourselves, and Ed Van Scoy recommended we bring it up with you now while your still making revisions to this year's rules (see below emails).
The B-pillar on the Corvette is in fact a roll bar in itself, and is welded to the frame of the car for safety in the event of a roll. If you would like, GM can verify this and we can show you that this is in fact true and is safer than any after market roll bar. I can also testify to its safety, as my ZR1 suffered a roll back in 1995 in which the car was badly damaged. The car has since been restored, with the B-pillar having never needed repairs. I can assure you, the Corvette's B-pillar's are extremely safe in the event of an accident.
Waiving this rule for the Corvettes is not only reasonable, it will likely bring many more Corvette owners to your events. Most corvette owners are not willing to hack into their cars to install a roll bar for just a few 1-mile races per year, especially if the B-pillar serves the same purpose. In addition, most of Team ZR1's corvettes won't exceed 175mph in that 1-mile, and any that do, we agree will be subject to a roll cage, fire system, and parachute requirements as prescribed by the rules. We believe that up to 175mph for your 1-mile race, the corvette should be able to run without a roll bar.
I sincerely hope you give our request favorable consideration. If you will entertain our request, and require any further information from me regarding this, please let me know. Thanks again for your time, and I look forward to hearing back from you.
Very Respectfully, Jason Mitchell Chesapeake, VA Team ZR1 Member 05-451
Ed Van Scoy <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: To: Team-ZR1@yahoogroups.com From: Ed Van Scoy Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 19:37:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Team ZR-1] ECTA Events - New Info
The person you would have to sell this idea to is Joe Timney. He is a long-time Bonneville racer and also does tech inspections on the salt. He is the new chief tech for ECTA. If you are gonna try NOW is the time to do it! ECTA is in the process of a complete make-over (including the rules) so toss it in now while the "powers" are in a negotiating mood. Joe Timney - email@example.com - (302) 378-3013
--- teamzr1 <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
> I'd suggest someone meeting up with those who make > rule changes and show them that the B pillar of the > vette is welded to the frame and is better then a > bolt in roll bar > ! > I did that several years ago with Roger Ward for his > ORRs and after spending time with me and my ZR-1 he > changed the rules and let us tech to 165 MPH with a > 5 point harness bar which installs with no mods to > the car. > As Roger saw many vette owners would not want to > hack the inside of car up just to do a few ORRs a > year. > > Team ZR-1 > http://teamzr1.com/main.html
Originally posted by barkingowl: I'm planning to go down in April. Where will Teammates be staying?
Keith Turk recommends we stay at Pine Acres Lodge, their address and phone number are on the website.
When in April do you want to go, beginning or end? I for one will prefer the end of April because it gives me more time to get the car ready for race season, but if the majority want to go in the beginning of April, I'll plan for then.
Thanks for the work on getting this thing to fly. I have been talking to Joe about the event with the NCCC participation, and am waiting for him to check on the insurance aspect of the Corvette without a roll bar because of the speeds we will be at. He mentioned the NHRA, IHRA, and others including the Muscle Car folks and their handling of the cars over 125, or really low et's. I am still waiting for the rulebook.
Jason (and others); I sent a note to Keith following YOUR note to him and plan to lobby him off-list. I'll make a phone call or two as well.... Any ammo you can give to me will aid the cause - My guess is this will turn into an insurance issue as that is what determines the speeds on the dry lakes. But, the dry lakes are a lot more dangerous (and a lot more accidents) than concrete. Ed